[0:13:22 - 0:13:51] So and John Ramirez had had a wonderful slide show and he I think he showed it on one of these blogs a year ago or so but it's a wonderful slide show where he sort of shows how how you know how this happens that it's like the rents and somebody sees something and it looks legitimate they see some craft in this guy so what happens well usually what happens is if whoever sees it whatever government agency sees it they take it they make sure they're not going to see it.

[0:37:46 - 0:37:51] is John Ramirez likes to point out, you know, was a CIA program. And we had our own

[1:43:54 - 1:44:01] you know, former, I guess colleague or, you know, XCIFs or John Ramirez, you know, I guess you can